Episode transcript · Auto-generated · The Low Divide
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0:00You know, when you think about public service, you usually picture, uh, sacrifice,
0:05like the underpaid civil servant, the modest office.
0:09Right. Definitely. It's supposed to be a calling exactly.
0:13But welcome to today's deep dive where we're looking at a stack of academic papers
0:17and policy blueprints that suggest, well, the exact opposite.
0:22We're asking what if the best way to defeat political corruption is to actually pay
0:26politicians massive multi million dollar corporate level salaries.
0:30It's wild. I know it completely flips the script because instead of relying on
0:36this, you know, vague sense of civic duty, the research explores what happens when
0:40you essentially weaponize elite greed to force better governance.
0:45Yeah. And the mission for our deep dive today is to see if this framework might
0:49actually be the ultimate hack to fix bad governance.
0:53And you should really care about this because bad governance is, uh,
0:57it's essentially an invisible tax that directly drains your wallet every single day.
1:02Absolutely. It affects everything. It really does.
1:05And before we jump in, just a quick note, these sources touch on some pretty
1:09charged political concepts. And we aren't endorsing any specific ideology here,
1:14left or right. We are just neutrally unpacking the economic theories and, you know,
1:19the empirical data they provided.
1:21Right. And to actually see this data in action, we really have to look at Singapore.
1:25I mean, they're founding prime minister, Lee Kuan Yew had a very blunt philosophy.
1:29He basically argued that if you pay peanuts, you attract monkeys.
1:34And they took that literally, right? Because under their MR4 framework, a full
1:38cabinet minister can make up to what 1.8 million Singapore dollars a year.
1:43Yeah, up to 1.8 million, but there is a really clever built in mechanism here.
1:47That 1.8 million actually represents a permanent 40% discount compared to what that
1:52exact same person would make as a top tier private sector executive.
1:56Wait, a 40% discount. So they are still taking a pay cut.
2:00Exactly. It's all about the psychology of public service.
2:03The idea is that they want highly competent leaders, but they still want people
2:07willing to make some financial sacrifice.
2:09So that 40% cut acts as a filter to preserve a public service ethos while still
2:15paying them enough to basically remove the daily stress of financial temptation.
2:19You got it.
2:20But let me push back on that for a second.
2:23Does handing someone an insane salary actually purify human morals?
2:28I mean, if someone is inherently corrupt, aren't we just giving a corrupt person
2:32a bigger baseline income?
2:33That's a great question.
2:34And researchers actually looked into this and the short answer is no, it doesn't
2:39make them saints, but it completely alters their risk reward.
2:42Math.
2:43Okay. How so?
2:44Well, if you're making 1.8 million legitimately, the size of a bribe required
2:49to make you risk losing that lifetime income, it's just prohibitively high.
2:54Right.
2:55But not impossible because the sources point out that rare corruption cases do
3:00still happen in Singapore, right?
3:02Like their former transport minister, um, S is for on.
3:05Yeah. That's a perfect example.
3:07He actually pleaded guilty over accepting luxury items like Formula one tickets
3:11and a Brompton bicycle bicycle.
3:14Right. So temptation absolutely still exists.
3:17But the systemic rate of temptation across the entire government drops drastically,
3:22just because the stakes of getting caught are financially devastating.
3:26Makes me wonder if the math of high pay works so well to prevent corruption.
3:31Why don't other highly rated countries do it?
3:33Like look at Denmark, they consistently top global integrity rankings,
3:38but they definitely aren't paying their politicians millions.
3:41Yeah, that's known in the research as the Nordic paradox.
3:44Those countries achieve high integrity with low pay through their culture of
3:48deep egalitarianism and really flat wage structures.
3:52So everyone kind of makes similar amounts anyway.
3:55Exactly.
3:56When the gap between the richest and poorest and the society is small,
3:59there's just less social and financial pressure for politicians to aggressively
4:03cash in.
4:04Okay. But the sources argue you can't just transplant that low pay model
4:08everywhere, right?
4:09Especially into what they call highly financialized economies, places where corporate
4:14money absolutely dwarves public sector pay.
4:17Right. Because if you try to do that, you just invite the revolving door.
4:20Politicians will accept a low public salary today, knowing full well,
4:24they can use their government contacts to cash in as highly paid corporate lobbyist
4:28tomorrow. So if a country can't just rely on Nordic culture, they basically have
4:33to use cash.
4:34And Singapore takes us to step further with their national bonus,
4:38which I found fascinating.
4:40Oh, yeah.
4:40This is a huge part of their system up to 35% of a minister's multi million
4:44dollar pay is tied to strict socio economic metrics.
4:48And one of those metrics is literally the real income growth of the poorest
4:5220% of citizens.
4:54Just imagine how that changes the politicians daily priorities.
4:57Think about that for a second.
4:59Imagine if your local mayor couldn't get their end of your bonus unless your
5:03personal property taxes went down and your wages went up.
5:07It completely aligns their greed with your well being.
5:10Yeah.
5:11A multi millionaire minister doesn't need to personally experience poverty to
5:14want to fight it.
5:15Their own paycheck is literally being held hostage by the financial wellbeing
5:19of the working class.
5:21But obviously, you know, you can't just copy, paste Singapore's government into
5:24a massive Western democracy.
5:26And that's why these papers propose a modified blueprint for places like Australia,
5:31because they struggle heavily with soft corruption, right?
5:33Exactly.
5:34Things like that revolving door we just mentioned or regulatory capture or
5:38politicians make favorable rules for the corporations they eventually plan to work
5:43for.
5:43So the Australian blueprint suggests combining a base salary with an
5:48independent bonus tied to real world outcomes, like housing affordability and
5:52lower class wage growth.
5:54Right.
5:54But to kill that revolving door, they introduce something called the democratic
5:58transition annuity or DTA.
6:01It's essentially a $300,000 lifetime annual pension.
6:05But with a massive catch to get that pension,
6:08departing ministers must sign a perpetual ban on ever holding a corporate
6:12board seat or working as a lobbyist.
6:15It's essentially a lifetime non-compete cause.
6:17They get a huge retainer specifically due to absolutely nothing in the corporate
6:22world, which neatly addresses one of the biggest criticisms of this whole
6:25theory.
6:26Critics always argue that high public pay will just attract greedy mercenaries.
6:30And does it?
6:31Well, the DTA actually filters those mercenaries out.
6:35I mean, a true mercenary goes in a government specifically to build a powerful
6:38network that they can monetize later in the private sector.
6:41Right.
6:41But if they sign this non-compete, they can never monetize that network.
6:45It stops them cold.
6:46It stops them cold.
6:48So we've explored how realigning financial incentives from Singapore's
6:53performance bonuses to Australia's proposed lifetime lobbying bands could
6:58drastically improve state capacity.
7:00It really shifts our entire focus from hoping to find incredibly virtuous
7:04leaders to building an unsentimental system that just simply works,
7:09which leaves you with this final thought.
7:11If we accept that humans will always act in their own self interest,
7:15what if the ultimate civic duty isn't demanding that politicians be
7:18selfless, but designing a system where they're greed, accidentally
7:24creates a utopia for the rest of us.
7:26Something for you to ponder.